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Subject: Hiding nutrition?

I'm reading "The Sneaky Chef" by Missy Chase Lapine. She describes how to puree various vegetables (Spinach, Blueberries, Squash, etc.) and "sneak" them into foods that kids like. She adds cauliflower to Mac & Cheese, and sneaks chickpeas or squash into spaghetti sauce. Her manta seems to be, "They'll eat vegetables tonight, without a fight".

While I can see some value to her methods, I question the basic logic. If a child will only eat a limited range of "Kid Foods", where did they learn that behavior ? To my mind, somebody messed up way early on in the development process. While there is a certain amount of bad eating habits learned from other children (and through natural desires) the ability to continue those habits at the home table is fostered by the parents or care givers.

Am I totally out to lunch with modern childrearing ? What are your thoughts on the topic ?

As a relatively new dad (our three kids are 7, 5, and 1 1/2), I agree that by far, the more preferable approach is to encourage -- even force -- your kids to try new things. However, there's also a varying degree of willingness in children, which certainly varies by age, to try new things. Our oldest child is now at the point where his favorite food is sushi, and our youngest child will happily eat anything, but our middle one is quite a picky eater and will indeed choose to go hungry over eating something even as basic and delicious as green peas. We've been very consistent with him... in this case I can see the logic of the sneaky-chef approach. But to me that's only temporary.

[edited January-5-2008]

[post seemed to duplicate -- will investigate]

[edited January-5-2008]

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[edited January-5-2008]

There certainly does seem to be stages at which children become picky eaters. Hopefully they are short-lived. Possibly while the kid is learning independence and "testing the limits" of the ability to control their environment. Peer pressure probably is a big factor as well, especially with school lunches etc.

Sometimes creative presentations can help. They are fun and show the diners that someone cares about them enough to do something special. The various food carvings and decorations are a good example. While they are intended primarily as decoration somehow they usually get eaten at some point.

I think the question of a child learning to be a picky eater somewhat goes back to the nature vs nurture issue. I think it's mostly nurture, as Promfh noted, learning to "not like" thinks from other kids, television, or other family members.

But some is definitely nature. Case in point - cilantro. My oldest son was eating a dish that had some cilantro in it and he said it tasted like soap. This was when he was a kid and would not have known that a) cilantro was in it and b) some people inherently get a soap like taste from cilantro.

Still, I think it's mostly learned behaviors. We set the example.

I was glad to see this post! I have that cookbook and I have made many of the recipes. Both of my children are picky eaters (ages 2 and 4 1/2). They mainly eat "kid foods" like pizza, chicken nuggets, hot dogs, grilled cheese, spaghetti, etc. They don't eat a wide variety of vegetables at all. Peas, green peppers, carrots are the ones they eat. I must say that this is way more than what my friend's kids eat. Many of my friend's kids eat no vegetables at all. They do not make them eat them because they fear that they will have some eating disorder when they are older. I think that is ridiculous. I think that kids will eat them if they are expected to and when you set your expectations so low they will never eat them! We call vegetables "grow food." We talk about needing that type of food to live and grow. I have also been teaching my 4 1/2 year old portions. If she asks for seconds on dessert, I always say to her that for someone her age and size, she does not need more.

I find it very frustrating that my whole family does not eat the same meal (except for pizza and spaghetti). I expressed my frustration to my pediatrician and she said they would eat "kid foods" for several more years and not to worry about it as long as they are growing. I was surprised that she said that! I have decided that in order to keep myself sane and to keep mealtime pleasant, that I would keep up the "kid food" for a few more years. I am a healthy eater (except for my sweet tooth) and I hope that they will follow my lead when they are older.

My goal with the cookbook was just to get some fresh ideas and to get my children to try some foods they ordinarily would not try (chickpeas, cauliflower, spinach, etc.). I found that the recipes did require a lot of work, but they were tasty! The chocolate chip pancakes were a big hit and I still get requests for them. I still feel like you need to encourage your kids to eat well rounded meals and teach them portion control. I still serve fruits and vegetables and they are expected to eat them, but I feel better knowing that I am getting a few extra vitamins and minerals in their bodies. I found that the recipes in that book were great and much healthier than the frozen convenience items I had been feeding my children.

Honestly, there are not many of my friends that have kids that even cook. Moms today are much different than they were generations ago. It is all about convenience it seems!

I agree with he last post about the "learned behaviors" and the "adults needing to set an example." I am not fond of eggs and I am sure my kids won't be too crazy about them either because I don't prepare them. Luckily my husband does like them and he makes them on the weekends.

Completely agree that fun-presentation, peer pressure, letting them help make it, and learned behaviors from adults are key here.

I notice that when our kids are over at friends' houses, they will often eat what we've tried to frequently (unsuccessfully) push in the past. Like all ideas, if they "discover" it themselves, they seem to "own" it more. We always have fruit and vegetables on their plates with dinner, so, fortunately, we're alright on that score.

We're at a point now where we have about 5 dinners that we can all enjoy as a family (ages 42 to 1 1/2), and can all find something at the menu at many different restaurants. That's definitely too narrow, and we're working on expanding the repertoire. Much more often, it's dinner for 3 plus dinner for 2... a little tiring on the cook, it seems. But we do make family dinner time a priority at least 4 nights a week.

"We're at a point now where we have about 5 dinners that we can all enjoy as a family"

There's this really neat web site you should look into. It's just loaded with recipe ideas all sorted with keywords, reviewed, and catagorized. I'll post the URL when I find it.

I don't hide nutrition. They are used to a main and two or three vegetables at dinner, fruits for snacks, fruit at lunch, 2 or 3 servings of milk (depending on their age) during the day. We don't eat chicken nuggets, except for the rare stop at McDonald's.

I think it helps to set their expectations before they are old enough to have their own opinions. Which pretty much means before they turn 1. After that, it is more difficult, but not impossible. I've read that kids often need to taste a new food 10 times before they can develop a taste for it. I've seen it take years, but we make sure they keep tasting the foods. They are allowed to hate them. Sometimes, we allow them to hate an entire serving of food! I think it works, but then, they've grown up with parents who keep trying new foods.

I got the new book 'Deceptively Delicious' for Chistmas that is all about how to sneak puree into everyday food. Haven't tried anything yet. Was thinking I'd try the brownies or something that otherwise has no value....maybe toss in some carrots or something.

As far as getting kids to eat, I guess I've been unflexible. They eat what I serve. I serve a lot of vegetables with every meal and we insiste on a representation of all food groups in packed lunches, all which is required to be eaten before the snack that's packed. My kids are really good with eating vegetables and frequently request fruit for snacks. I guess I got lucky there. There are a few things my kids just really don't like, so I don't make them eat it, but I do make them taste it every time. Because it's true that after enough bites they suddenly like it.

I do occasionally make a point of fixing 'kid food' for dinner. Usually on the weekend game and movie night. Makes the evening more fun for them. Never knew how wonderful corndogs were until I cooked them up for a 5 and 3 yo.

Someone mentioned that they learn from us. Isn't that the truth. Helps me though from sitting around munching on junk, because if I don't want them to eat it, I figure I shouldn't be either.

I also learned that they seem to eat what every it is they think they cook. My Son helped me cook breakfast for dinner the other night, he put the bacon in the pan, whisked the eggs, and rolled the crescents. He could wait to eat it all since he 'cooked' it.

[edited January-15-2008]

Good for you! I figure I am doing them a big favor by making sure they learn what they need to learn in life.

Yep, if they cook it, they love eating it. It's the same for vegetables in the garden. If they help to grow them, they can't wait to taste them, and to eat them.

JCSM: You're definitely on the right track. Starting early with good eating habits is the way to go. Getting kids involved in the kitchen encourages them to try new things as well.

Our (4-year-old) granddaughter proudly ate the peas she grew on the patio of their townhouse. Corn obtained from a farmer's Pick-Your-Own field during a day trip was a real treat as well.

Our family still fondly remembers an incident from 20+ years ago when a friend of our daughter asked to stay for dinner. During dinner the 10-year-old neighbor kid gave us the highest praise we've ever received. She announced, "I LIKE to eat at your house, you ALWAYS have something Wierd !" <grin>

I am a mother of 2 and I just don't get the "hiding" thing. Sorry. I wouldn't eat pureed junk and I wouldn't expect my kids to either. I try to involve them in all aspects of the meal preparation process. I empower them to help choose meals and serve themselves. They love looking at Big oven and helping pick out the recipes for the week. We serve a range of vegetables in a variety of ways. I involve the kids in the shopping and the preparation of the food so they have ownership of it. This seems to be a better way to get them to enjoy and experience new and nutritious foods. Not lying to them. That's not setting a good example in my opinion. One of the best rules we have in our home is we all eat the same meal at the table. I have never allowed different dinners at my home. If you don't eat the family meal, you don't eat. Since I try several new recipes a week it gives everyone time to critique the meal and have a conversation about their day. Its good family time.

I agree with scturner97. Getting kids involved in preparation and meal selection is a great way to go. Nutrition (and diet) is a learned behavior and can be taught early on. If you can establish a good nutritional "baseline" things become part of the basic process and there are fewer "fights" in the future.

While getting everyone together for meals on a regular basis is an excellent idea I wonder if that's practical on today's two-wage-earner households. Unfortunately between on-call schedules, business travel, and multiple jobs things have become much more "fractured" time-wise. Getting everyone together has become more of a "special occasion" event that, perhaps, it really should be. But that's the reality of many situations these days.

However, if you can teach good nutritional values, the quality of those on-the-run meals can still improve. Some extra creativity and flexibility will do wonders with this issue.

So, what are other "busy" caregivers doing to solve the problem ? Let's share our ideas and pool our resources.

Orange Sweet Potato Muffins made me suddenly realize you can do both. Teach kids to fill up on fruits and vegetables while, at the same time, teaching them to build a better muffin. A portable breakfast that's better for you than a bagel.

Because we are going to let them eat pancakes and muffins and brownies from time to time, why not bulk those up with chopped or pureed fruits and vegetables? Because they sometimes want dip with those carrots, why not make something from pureed white beans or roasted eggplant?

So I'm almost sold on "hiding" nutrition. Not for the sake of hiding it, but for the sake of finding delicious, nutritious alternatives to some of the junk kids love.

But don't make it a big secret. They only way to get them to follow a healthy diet as adults is to teach them how to do it as kids.

Those muffins look delicious. You've got a great idea that you can include nutritious ingredients without "hiding" them. It fits in with my theory on oatmeal, "If it's good for them in a bowl, it's good for them in a cookie!"

The bad eating habits start at home, and are continued at school and at most restaurants. it is reinforced with what they watch on TV, and when you get a group of individuals no matter how old or young and the majority thinks one way they can influence others easily. All this rolled into a young mind that is ready to absorb what you give it takes it in and makes it real. When this happens it is hard to change.
The answer is starting young. Introduce your child to healthy meals from day one If instead of cheerios and crackers you give your child some peas and beans. Continue to introduce Healthy foods and only offer them healthy snacks.
Keep the kitchen stocked with fresh vegetables and fruits.
Do not buy canned fruits and vegetables the nutrients are cooked out of most of them. They have added salts and sugars to them. If you truly want a healthy kid you must be a healthy parent.
Yes you have to eat your vegetables also. If you do not eat healthy you will not have a healthy kid.
I know when you’re hungry the 1.35 seconds it takes to make a fantastic bowl of Chips and toss back a crisp refreshing soda that was made 2 weeks ago, OOOOOooh a Thursday what a good day that was.
Compared to the invaluable time it takes to make a meal from scratch. The chopping, the marinating, the sautéing, the baking. The washing the cleaning all of these tasks take time and energy that we all claim to not have.
I guarantee If you eat healthy spend time with your kids teaching them about nutrition, food safety, going over school, friends, how there day went. Yes do all this while preparing a fantastically fresh homemade meal.
Sit down with our kids with some music, one that is appropriate for meal time. Than when it is all over if everyone gets up and cleans up the task will go quick and painless. Now if you do all this I bet you anything you will have more energy in your day.
You will find that you know your kids. You have a open line of communication with them.
They will eat better. Kids tend to eat something if they understand it and help in the preperation.
You will teach your kids responsibility and give them a chance to give back to the family. As they get older you can let them plan the meals.

The better you plan your meals the easier time you will have in preparing them through the week. Utilization of product is the key to saving money also. You can cook a meal at home for one third the price at least of going out if done correctly.
Bah I am rambling now goodnight.

[edited November-11-2008]

Very thoughtful post Lesdat, thank you for your perspective!

And put carrot sticks in their lunch box instead of licorice sticks.

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